Friday, 22 July 2011

LTD Observations so far....

I had a couple of questions in my mind about yesterday's analysis of laying the draw.

The first, and most obvious one, concerned the merits of hedging across the board at 1.8 (or other odds, more of which later) or leaving the loss sitting on the draw to catch late wins. When I 'what if'd' my spreadsheet with a fully hedged bet the result, so I thought, was clear cut in favour of leaving the big loss on the draw. Two things now make me question this....

In a comment on yesterday's post Anon kindly pointed out that I had made a mistake on one of the losing games, meaning I was showing a loss of £100 instead of £200. That changed things slightly.

The second point to consider was that a late goal does not of course rule out a draw! Bearing in mind that the exit point is usually somewhere between sixty and seventy minutes depending on the game there is a lot of potential for a 'gotcha'. So, prudence dictates that one ought to lay the leading team after a goal to cover some, if not all, of the liability sitting on the draw. In a Polish game tonight the away team scored at 75 minutes. They were 1.3 or so to lay even at that late stage, so to cover a liability of £180 would have cost £50 odd.

Taking both these thoughts together I am now minded to hedge completely, take the loss like a man and move on!

Which brings me to my second question... what odds to bottle out of the trade at??

Talking about this subject in chat earlier on I encountered one of those little gems of information that belonging to a community of traders sometimes imparts. Jon, aka Lambretta, said I should look at the 1.8 odds because it takes only 3 minutes or so usually for the draw odds to drop from 2 to 1.8. Now I've never timed it, but Lamb's a stats man and I am totally confident that he is right... and it makes sense if you think about it. Evens (decimal odds 2) is a tick size change figure - i.e. the odds change from .02 to .01 per tick. That is why the draw (and other outcomes) hover around evens for quite some time as traders try to take advantage of that minuscule difference. Once the barrier is broken the odds fall away quite quickly. Now, if it's 0-0 at the time the draw odds reach evens the chances of a goal in the 3 minutes or so it takes for them to drop to 1.8 are tiny so it makes much more sense to use 2 as the trade out point.

So now I am at the crossroads again! Changing the trade out odds to 2 probably tips me back in favour of putting all the liability on the draw rather than on hedging... so I'm going to work on that over the next few days.

For the benefit of those who hadn't spotted it, there's a simple trade buried in that rambling paragraph above! Back the draw at evens for £100, hedge out three minutes later at 1.8 for a green of £11.11 or lay for £100 at 1.8 for a free bet of £20 on the draw! Simples!

6 comments:

  1. Hi,

    Good posts about LTD. Many hours have been spent by many people thinking about this problem.

    In your first post you have two LTD:s that were entered at HT. How does this affect the result? What would the total outcome be if they were entered at KO instead?

    Cheers

    ReplyDelete
  2. Hey Gun,

    Great to see you blogging again. Funny that you should bring the LTD up. I was only thinking the other day that although dated, this method of all the ones I've tried seemed to be the one I made most profit on.However, I used to have a 0-0 insurance bet. This is because no matter how hard I try to take "the tiger line" I always end up taking "the pusy line" but I guess thats just me and my cautious nature. Interestingly the guy who penned the LTD John Duncan has released his new trading method, which I'm sure will be available for free at some point.I'm away for the best part of August but will be hooking up with you guys at trading football sometime in September.

    Stay Lucky Kid

    Pete

    ReplyDelete
  3. Halt, that's a subject for another set of analysis, but obviously laying in the second half usually leaves a lower liability and a higher profit!

    Red!! Great to hear from you mate. Hope to see you in chat in the new season - think a few old faces (nothing personal!) will be returning to the fold!

    ReplyDelete
  4. Hi Gundulf

    Interesting post but I have a question for you ref this comment:

    "the chances of a goal in the 3 minutes or so it takes for them to drop to 1.8 are tiny"

    Why, it only takes a second to score a goal?

    ReplyDelete
  5. @Neil - Good point but it takes just 3 minutes to drop from 2 to 1.8. If you trade out at 1.8, you are effectively paying 20% of your available red up for just 3 minutes of additional football.

    @Gun - You are indeed a shrewdy. Many traders utilise this quick drop in odds as a way to compound and add the much discussed 3% per day.

    ReplyDelete
  6. Neil, I guess you could call it shorthand for explaining that this is a bit of a punt rather then a well thought out repeatable trading strategy! However, imo, 't'is a punt which will pay out many more times than it fails :-). Which makes it a bona fide trade as Lamb suggests....

    ReplyDelete